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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Feb 15, 2009 8:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: It was early in your dead career...And you did not know how historic it was......did you have a moment like this?

For me, it was not so much historic, but a terrific show- top 100 all time. 3/9/81. The show did feature the first New York electric Birdsong for many a year. The overall show sizzles from start to finish. I have pimped it before so I will not do so now. I did not know I was hearing that landmark Birdsong at the time.

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Poster: kochman Date: Feb 15, 2009 9:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It was early in your dead career...And you did not know how historic it was......did you have a moment like this?

Yeah, because my dead career started so late into their career...

Saw the last Comes A Time and Days Between.

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Poster: He Live's Date: Feb 15, 2009 9:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

the grateful dead concert experience is a microcosm of LIFE. it offers us the element of chance. and teh opportunity to make a choice. and with choice an chance, we set ourselves on a different course.....



the reason a KISS CONCERT or a WHO CONCERT or a LED ZEPPELIN CONCERT or a WEEN CONCERT or a SPICE GIRLS CONCERT or a BEATLES CONCERT or an ELVIS CONCERT* is ultimately meaningless is because:

#1: their concerts were of a limited nature. they played the same songs, in the same order, every nite, for a very limited stretch of time. they went on tour and then they went home.

#2: (partly due to the limited nature of their tours and concerts) no one sought to preserve EVERY SHOW of a tour through recording. sure, led zeppelin and beatles BOOTLEGS are sought after quantities. but between instances of a certain period or tour, the contents are, relative to the Grateful Dead, meaningless: see #1 (they mostly did it the same every nite.)

#3: there was very little SCENE or LORE associated with the typical touring acts cited. the GD were built on scene and lore. you went because you were NOT JUST going to "a show." you went PRECISELY because you knew you were quite possibly tapping into something bigger, more important and relevant to Life than just a ROCK & ROLL SHOW.


the reason a GRATEFUL DEAD CONCERT was so meaningful is because, that was the very promise from the beginning -- we're gonna go on a ride, TOGETHER. that is what they said to us: "hey, we're gonna head out into space, wanna come along?" and we wanted to go. so here we are. we have all these concerts to listen to and we are still riding. if we weren't still riding you, LIAM, could not ask this question.

because your question hinges on the eternal nature of what went down from 67-95: it was NOT about selling a product. it was about going on a ride, for better or worse, as far as we could take it......




MY ANSWER: sadly, my experience begins at the dawn of the dark years: brent's last and vince's first. i saw a dark star in 90 or 91 but it is not interesting to listen to now.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Feb 16, 2009 11:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

Dark Star became kinda of a joke in latter years. There is one with David Murray in 93 that's like 8 mins long and only one verse. Kind of a novelty at that point. With that said I think there are some special late versions.

Miami 89
Nassau 90
MSG 1990
Oakland NYE 1990
Greensboro 91
Oakland Halloween 1991

There out there just don't expect a 43 min version

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Poster: kochman Date: Feb 15, 2009 10:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

I can name some interesting Dark Stars from 90 & 91...

How about 7/12/90?!
The June 92 sandwich?!

There are 3 right away that I know I enjoy. You honestly don't like 7/12/90 Dark Star?

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Poster: He Live's Date: Feb 15, 2009 11:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

hello koch,

maybe some day.... but really, i think the sort of improvisation they did in DARK STAR and THE OTHER ONE and PLAYIN IN THE BAND went pretty much out the window when KEITH left the band. what they did on those tunes, say in SEPTEMBER 72, just for example... i mean, they never really got there again after the break in 74/75. much less 79 and on... there was a brief moment in 1990 when the MIDI stuff was handled tastefully and JERRY seemed interested in improvising in earnest again.....

but really. the reasons i like say 77/78 and 72/73, are just totally different. maybe we can just say the SCARLET>FIRE VIBE replaced the DARK STAR/PLAYIN VIBE in the late 70s...... i have said it before, i will say it again, the GD were an ever evolving beast. they weren't the same band in 72 and 80, 68 and 78, or take your pick -- that's why we are still here talking about this stuff.... they kept changing.

DARK STAR?..... it was in the rotation from 1/17/68 till 10/18/74 and made a re-appearance on 12/31/78.

i know what they sounded like in the 90s and i am not very interested in spending time hearing more of it. for example i would be happy to spend more time on SPETEMBER 1972 alone than i would the entire period from 1984-1995....




This post was modified by He Live's on 2009-02-16 07:03:50

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Poster: kochman Date: Feb 16, 2009 5:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

To each his own of course... I would say some of the "orbital jams" of the 79-81 period are pretty cool.
These were always pre-drums, or leading into drums.

Some examples for those interested are (they are often listed at deadlists.com as separate jams)
8/12/79 out of Eyes
9/2/79 out of LIG
11/4/79 out of Terrapin
11/5/79 out of Franklin's
11/29/79 out of Eyes
12/28/79 out of PITB
5/12/80 out of He's Gone
There are more, a few in 81 for example, that I can't recall the dates on. And, you mentioned that you can stomach some of the MIDI from 1990...
If you listen to nothing else that I suggested above, listen to the Dark Star from 7/12/90...
http://www.archive.org/details/gd90-07-12.sbd.miller.21980.sbeok.shnf

Re: Sep 72, you have seen my issues with it... There is some greatness, and that type of jamming died after 1974 really, I hear what you are saying.
I really don't see the departure of Keith as the end of Jerry's playing ability... in fact, I think his personal performances were at their peak from 77-84. Keith's departure was a great thing in that it added so many new dimensions to the band musically (vox and all the various sounds that Brent would hammer out of his boards).

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 15, 2009 11:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

Nice to see you didn't include THE CLASH in that list. Talk about some life changing shows....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMDw91u-6oc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFGxauL07_I

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Poster: He Live's Date: Feb 15, 2009 11:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

no way man... i could see that: the clash, bob marley, springsteen... hell, i wasn't looking to say any single concert couldn't be a very serious life changing event for a person... more so i am just looking at the GD as somehow unlike anything else in regular old rock & roll. like, it WASN'T about "the concert" or any particular "message."

i mean there is no other band that endeavored to do anything even remotely similar. i would probably compare the GD to Ringling Bros & Barnum Bailey Circus before say the Black Crowes or BB KING or Elvis.... they were a traveling circus that endured for 25 years. year in year out, criss-crossing the country with no promise at each stop along the way other than POSSIBILITY -- the chance that one might just encounter a little bit of magic, a small glimpse of the machinations of the universe.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Feb 16, 2009 12:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

hmm, "life changing" ... i can't say any single show/concert did that for me, though there are certainly some which are more high-lighted in my conciousness, for whatever reason, be it the vibe, the music, the friends i was with, or just my life at the time; i mean, when you think about it, it doesn't even necessarily need to be the entire happening or musical climate, it could very well be just one shard from the clock, an epiphanal moment that struck like thunder then, and resonates, perhaps to a lesser degree, still today; i think if you know what i'm saying, you know what i mean

the GD were, as HL says, unique, more journey than not, a vari-coloured landscape/tapestry offering that which was not got at your run-of-the-mill rock&roll show

and it is this 'uniqueness' experienced first-hand, and the lingering threads of it in my memory, which has brought me back to the music, to this crazy forum of freaks, but more importantly, has (i'd like to think) enriched me in ways still unfolding

if, you know what i mean ...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 16, 2009 6:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

i dont know - seeing Loverboy at the Providence Civic Center was a pretty intense life-changing experience for me!!!





;-p

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Feb 16, 2009 7:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

but was it the music or the chicks in the crowd??

you'll also be happy to hear then that Loverboy is being inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame this year ... mcglone is all in a tizzy about it!

hey, is it true what i hear ... you're heading to Italy?

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Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 16, 2009 7:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

ahhh...Italy! non beva il vino

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 16, 2009 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

are you serious about Loverboy heading to the hall of fame??? OMG, what has this world come to....


and yes, I am heading to Italy for a couple of weeks on honeymoon with my beautiful bride to be. really lookin forward to it. (marie is an amazing amazing woman!!)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Feb 16, 2009 9:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

Grab me a canoli.

Billy Idol is played on "classic rock" stations... the end is nigh.

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Poster: wineland Date: Feb 17, 2009 6:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

Congratulations on your marriage with Marie. All the best wishes.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Feb 16, 2009 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

the Jam in '79, on the same night that Bill Graham had another show at the theatre 'round the corner, a two-ticket double-header sure-fire in Oakland, CA - the second show with Roxy Music, the Manifesto Tour.


That for me was a real close call for a life-changing show..
I actually went and got a job a few days later!

But seeing Blondie and The Nuns in '77 - at The Old Waldorf, my first new wave - punk show - that WAS a life-changer...

I escaped my flower child roots and slipped into the next youth rebellion...
anyway, for more juicy details - here's my blog page on all the shows I ever went to that mattered:

http://beat-pop.blogspot.com/2005/01/super-list-all-shows-attended.html

This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2009-02-16 17:14:18

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 16, 2009 1:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

CPW, it won't be the same, but Paul Weller is going to be at The Warfield in April. Should be great - saw him a handful of years ago in Prague and he was great. Talk about a criminally underrated artist.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Feb 22, 2009 5:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

thx for the hedz up, bluedev - might weller be worth going!

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Poster: wineland Date: Feb 17, 2009 6:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

On the blog you write, "Grateful Dead/Miles Davis Quintet 1970 FW -my first live show"

No sense testing the live music waters, just jump in balz first.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Feb 22, 2009 6:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

that 1st show, for me, was indeed a baptism by fire.

Sure, in hindsight I wish I had started going to live shows in '66 - I was old enough, at 14, to roam around the City (SF) on my own, with just enough money of my own to go to the Avalon (all ages).

By early '69 I was collecting Crumb underground comix, ZAP and all those things but wasn't getting stoned or going all the way yet - not 'til early '70.

After breaking those barriers, live shows was a foregone eventuality.

If I had waited another year ot two to see the Grateful Dead, speaking for myself and my tastes here, it's unlikely I'd be writing this here and now -
my love and respect for them as a live act stems from the GD shows I saw in 1970.

I appreciate what they've done since 1970, and I've learned from the archive material that I enjoy pre'70 GD even more than the shows relating to my 1st times seeing them live...

What I'm trying to say is, waste not another chance to see them (Dead '09) or any fine musicians play live - there's no time like
the present, to be alive!

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Poster: wineland Date: Feb 22, 2009 8:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: BY NATURE: The Grateful Dead were like NO OTHER

I couldn't agree more. See live music, even if your buddy says they just learned of a good new band. My wife and I have seen some great bluegrass, the new style being jamgrass. Tombone Shorty was just in town doing the Portland Jazz Festival. Go see this master of jazz if he comes within a few hundreds of miles of your town. Being born the year you first started seeing them brings on the realization that the new is as vibrant as the tried and true. Great recollection you provide for us. I just listened to 5/14/70 today and thoroughly enjoyed it. Next up was Ween and dug it too. Love and live music.

wineland

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Poster: SoggeeJohnson Date: Feb 16, 2009 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It was early in your dead career...And you did not know how historic it was......did you have a moment like this?

Does it count if you Grew up during that time in history and,.... are you really sure you want it repeating itself ?

That's alotta VD.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Feb 16, 2009 2:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It was early in your dead career...And you did not know how historic it was......did you have a moment like this?

well, let me throw up a few for starters...

I was at the Winterland show the night Janis Joplin passed on...

the debut of the Wall of Speakers (the Beast?) at the Cow Palace in 1973...

the first performance of Sugar Magnolia, at the Carousel (Fillmore West) on June 7, 1970...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-06-07.sbd.hollister.98.sbeok.shnf

also the late 1970 Winterland show (or was it 1971) when there was a massive od of the water passed to the crowd from the stage

("Take a sip and pass it on..." there were some thirsty fellers there that nite who didn't hear the "take a sip"
part. It made the daily Chronicle and local news broadcasts the next day...
My poppa was pretty worried, since I didn't come home or get in touch for at least a day after the concert, me not knowing what had happened (I wasn't dosed).


On a higher note, I was at the August 18th 1970 Carousel show - the first ever performances of:
Truckin'
Ripple
Brokedown Palace
Operator

It was a sweet show, barely captured by the tapes, as is so often the case, despite the fabulous GD archives...

nothing is quite like having been there... whether your show of shows was a mid-'80s evening or early '90s day on the green...

cherish what blades of grass you can recall in your mind's eye.

Now get out!

This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2009-02-16 10:12:04

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Feb 15, 2009 10:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It was early in your dead career...And you did not know how historic it was......did you have a moment like this?

Just curious cpw, was there an announcement made at the October 4,1970 Winterland show that Janis had died, or was this news held back to prevent a bummer?

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Feb 16, 2009 2:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It was early in your dead career...And you did not know how historic it was......did you have a moment like this?

They didn't announce it.

The show was quadrophonically telecast - check out the reviews posted on the 2 versions here on the archive for the very interesting details.

The bands knew about her passing that night, and like troopers, rallied in her memory (I presume) and made damn sure the show must go on, on an upbeat vibe...
the Dead played their hearts out, no doubt in a public/private farewell to the queen of their scene...

her passing was a great loss to all and sundry, certainly to her peers in the Family Dog et. al...
musicians, artists and everyday people who were deeply touched by her spirit...

Pearl (the last recording sessions she made) was her triumph, albeit a posthumous legacy which ironically became her greatest hit - Janis' premature departure from this miserable world left a gap that no one has ever even come close to filling.

She was in the same league as Jerry Garcia, Pigpen, and others we put on the highest of pedastals... with good reason...

The friend I took to that show, a good buddy from high school - his first time at a live Dead concert was that night - he said since then that he was inspired by the Dead's set so much - realizing this was how it worked...

Glitz and glam were not at the heart of what the Dead did, call it folk, blues, or rock and roll - the Grateful Dead that night showed him something so real, so out front, that Mark "Mu" Ungar became a serious musician for the rest of his life.
MU's still at it now, and fortune or fame isn't his motivation for playing on, rather the love of music is.


Get it while you can...



This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2009-02-16 10:39:43

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 16, 2009 7:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It was early in your dead career...And you did not know how historic it was......did you have a moment like this?

I was so "prepared" for my first show that "life changing" doesn't seem appropriate...IE, having collected shows and mainly studio efforts, I was such a committed HEAD by the time I saw them in the mid 70s that it was just the logical next step in my obsession.

Did feel like seeing them in GGPark in September 75 was very special...mostly because it was a good show with good friends, but esp because it seemed so "right" and I felt I had really missed the early free concerts in the vicinity. So it was a nice historical tidbit, even moreso given what I morphed into the last few yrs (Mr 68 and all...).